Talk:Kenny Dalglish

Freedom of the City of Glasgow

Does he really have this? I can't find any reference to it anywhere and wondered whether it was a subtle vandalism of the page. That said, he certainly deserves to have the award. Mkns 19:42, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

By the same token, does he have the freedom of Liverpool?? Or do you have to have come from a city to be bestowed with such an honour? Again, he would be most worthy. Dalglynch-72 04:33, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Catholic team Celtic ?

I'm not too sure about this part. I'd prefer if "He wanted to join his idols at Rangers, but the call never came. He had trials at Liverpool and West Ham, but they came to nothing. And so it was that Dalglish, the Protestant son of an engineer, found himself playing for the Catholic team Celtic, age-old fierce Old Firm rivals of Rangers." was changed to "He wanted to join his idols at Rangers, but the call never came. He had trials at Liverpool and West Ham, but they came to nothing. And so it was that Dalglish, the Protestant son of an engineer, found himself playing for Celtic, age-old fierce Old Firm rivals of Rangers."

What is a 'Catholic' team?

Is your argument that neither Celtic nor Rangers are officially affiliated to either the Catholic or Protestant faith? Mkns 20:35, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Glasgow Scotland

When giving the place of birth, is it really necessary to give it a Glasgow, Scotland. It seems quite superfluous. After all, he is credited as being a Scottish footballer (therefore from Scotland) and Glasgow is Scotland's biggest city and well known enough internationally. Alex Ferguson's article reads as just Glasgow and Bob Paisley's is Hetton-le-Hole Co. Durham (with no England). hedpeguyuk 09:31, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

A reasonable argument to a point; however, the same argument occurs all over Wikipedia and, unless there is a specific rule laid down somewhere, this kind of edit (adding or removing Scotland) could just go back and forth forever. I'd suggest not worrying about it, it's really not that important. At least they got the country right ;) Mkns 20:37, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

1986 World Cup

This article says Dalglish missed the tournament through injury, but the Alan Hansen page says he withdrew from the squad in protest at Ferguson not calling Hansen up. Which is correct? Angmering 22:29, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

This is a matter of some debate. Dalglish had played a major part in the later stages of Liverpool's season, without any mention of an underlying injury. He had played a big part in Scotland's qualifying campaign for the 1986 World Cup, under the then manager Jock Stein. When Stein died, Ferguson was installed as caretaker manager.

Dalglish was indeed originally selected for the squad and Hansen was not. It should be noted that although Hansen had a long and illustratious club career, he had wone relatively few caps for Scotland. The belief was that, as Liverpool manager at the time, Dalglish was angry at Hansen's absence from the squad and pulled out as a consequence.

I don't know if we will ever get the real truth on this, Dalglish himself never made a comment as far as I know, but things that should be noted are a) Dalglish gave up the chance of playing in his 4th World Cup, he would have been one of a very few British players ever to have achieved that. b) Hansen was club captain at Liverpool and Dalglish always supported his players to the hilt. c) Dalglish and Hansen were, and still are, close freinds. Hansen may have been one of the very few players he would have done this for. d) Despite public appearances, Dalglish and Ferguson have always been close freinds, both before and after this incident. --194.125.111.194 15:16, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

In his autobiography it states that he missed the 86 world cup through injury.

Dubious Information

Caps and goal figures in the article likely contain European cup/Domestic cup data in addition to Domestic League data (this is very certain based on this user's previous edits containing similar information [1]. Please correct this issue and leave a note here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Alfmaster#Footballers.27_European_goals, to warn this person about putting improper information on Wikipedia. --Palffy 21:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Fixed now. --Palffy 17:37, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Ah, yes, I probably should have dropped a note here when I made the change. Apologies. --Daduzi ^talk 18:46, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

2004 Rooney Court Case

I have found myself locked in an edit war with User:82.156.33.151. Basically they think that reference to this court case should be in the lead section. I would argue that it shouldn't. I personally hadn't heard about it until this user started writing about it on this article, so I can't see that it's *that* big of a story to be on a par with his footballing career.

I have researched the story and written a section about it, hoping to negate the edit war, but no, every day it gets reverted. As far as I can tell the case didn't involve Dalglish. He wasn't called as a witness. There is no actual proof in the allegations. It is merely allegations, which admittedly look bad. Anyway, I believe that this infomation definitely doesn't deserve to be in the lead section.

what say ye? aLii 23:25, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you, Ali. It is notable enough to require being in the article, but not so important to demand being in the lead section. I had also never heard about it before I read this article. Jim (Talk) 11:26, 12 August 2006 (UTC) (PS, I'm not cyberstalking you; I had your talk page on my watchlist because of a comment I'd put on their a while back, and saw the comment [] had left. :-) )

• That is absurd logic just because you haven't heard about it then it is not important. You have researched and written an inaccurate version of the trial. The prosecution decided not to rely on Stretford's evidence becuase he lied about when he poached Wayne Rooney. This point has no baring on the fact that it was accepted by the prosecution and defence lawyers that Dalglish brought a leading London gangland figure to a 2002 meeting. Kenny Dalglish has to be described in the totality and if he decides to associate with convicted drug dealers that should be included.

No, it's perfectly reasonable logic. Also reading the source you just added I see further evidence of this being a whole load of nothing: "On one occasion, notorious London gangland figure – Tommy Adams – accompanied former superstar Kenny Dalglish to a meeting. Dalglish had a stake in Stretford’s agency, but Adams’ role, other than his intimidatory presence, went unexplained." Is that it? It isn't a crime to be in the same room as a "notorious gangland figure". Is it notable? Perhaps. Is it notable compared to Dalglish's football career? No. I'm going to revert you again. aLii 13:27, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

• The suggestion that it is perfectly reasonable logic is facile nonesense and deserves no further comment. Amongst all your bluster you now accept that the meeting did happen and Dalglish did bring Adams. Nonetheless your bias knows no limits and you go on to attempt to change the goalposts and say in effect "oh well, so what". Dalglish has to be described in the round. If you are a prominent sportman, albeit in this case retired, you are generally taken to be a role model for society. Associating with Adams' is reprehensible. Dalglish wasn't just grabbed at a stadium or some other public venue and shoved into a photograph with someone he didn't really know. He brought this man with him to a business meeting. By going down this path Dalglish has put his personal off pitch reputation at issue. Skilled as he was, his skill does not somehow allow fanatical Liverpool fans like yourself to attempt to sketch a portrait of him that doesn't fit with reality. When Peter Shilton passes away his gambling will be mentioned when his life is summed up. At the time that Paul Gascoigne dies, inter alia, his drink problem will feature in the press. Part of Dalglish's life is that he has associated with noted criminals.

I accept that the meeting probably happened, but so what? It doesn't make your writing of this to be one of the defining moments of a glittering career to be any more acceptable. Your mentioning of "when Peter Shilton passes away his gambling will be mentioned when his life is summed up" backs up my point perfectly infact, because this will not be mentioned in Dalglish's career. The fact is that it is a footnote, if anything, to the career of Kenny Dalglish, and should be treated as such.

• • More non-sequitur's and nonesense.

You should see Non sequitur (logic). Read it understand it, and learn to spell it. Just because you say it doesn't mean it's true. aLii 22:22, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

• • Grow up. Not going to repeat the same points again and again. It happened. It was accepted by the lawyers. 82.156.33.151

They were not Dalglish's lawyers and Dalglish was not present in court. The case was thrown out because of unreliable witness. The media report Dalglish's involvement as "alleged". How much more evidence do we need to see that there was no conrete evidence offered? This article should reflect the press reports, not your personal bias. aLii 23:10, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

You even say that as role model he shouldn't be seen to be associating with criminals, however you fail to note that he hasn't actually been seen by any of us to be doing that. There are no photographs. There is merely the say so of a dodgy football agent, and Dalglish's refusal to talk to the police. I admit that it looks bad, and as such I've written into the article what we know about the case from the press reports. Your distaste for Dalglish is noted, but it shouldn't be allowed to colour this article. Again I refer you to WP:NPOV. aLii 19:03, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

• Planet Ali: what Ali thinks is important is important. If Ali hasn't seen it- it didn't happen. Grow up. Your hero worship of Dalglish is noted. There are only so many ways of saying it was accepted in court that Dalglish brought the drug dealer and gangland figure Tommy Adams to a business meeting. The veracity of Stretford's evidence on another unrelated issue is irrelvant to this point. Go and read the court reports again.82.156.33.151

Hey, at least I have the balls to sign my posts with my name, so that my views can be challenged. At the moment it's 2 to 1 on this argument, so I'll consider myself in the majority. aLii 22:22, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

• Great good for you. Nothing like sophisticated debate.82.156.33.151

Bootroom 101: Kenny Dalglish Sunday Herald, The, Oct 10, 2004 In an attempt to persuade Wayne Rooney's then agent to take a hike, Kenny Dalglish turned up at a meeting with one of the notorious Adams family (it wasn't Morticia), an English Crown Court heard last week.

The Adams in question was a London villain. Dalglish clearly models himself on a character from the fictional Addams family, Thing, the grabbing hand which pops out of the box, palm open. The rapacious failed manager loves money more than his own legend, which he has long since discredited. Remember those cringe-making BT ads? The dalliance with Rangers? Trying to grab his former Celtic employers by the throat until their financial pips squeaked? And who can forget, in his dog days at Parkhead, the procession of press conferences through the festering fleapits and fleshpots of Glasgow's East End? Thing, get thee gone.

Sorry I don't see the point of the above quote and attempt at humour. It just paints yourself in a worse light. Please sign your future posts. At the end of your comments, simply type four tildes (~), like this: ~~~~. Also please do not remove the above "unsigned" notes. aLii 19:03, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

• • You don't see the point of a lot of things. It is just an article from a Scottish newspaper in late 2004 that speaks for itself.82.156.33.151

---

I have a challenge for you:

1. Google "Kenny Dalglish", infact here's the link to that search
2. Each page of results holds 10 results. Find which page gives the first mention of this court case, neglecting Wikipedia and pages that take their information directly from Wikipedia (e.g. answers.com).
3. Admit that this is not a major factor in the life of Kenny Dalglish.

aLii 22:22, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

• • • That is just silly and such an exercise has no probative value. Again not going to repeat previous comments his life has to be described in the round.82.156.33.151

It has plenty of value. It shows that this case isn't important within the scope of this article. You only refuse my challenge because you know that you'll immediately lose the argument. aLii 23:10, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I tend to side with Ali on this one. Several people are described as "known gangland characters," without specific sources for such knowledge ever given out. In effect, it is almost an attempt at establishing guilt by association. If they were substantial evidence that his contact with this person resulted in some sort of specific action which might not otherwise have happened, and there was good evidence that this association might have been the cause of that action, I would think differently. But accusation and allegation, particularly for a living person, might constitute libel and on that basis the section should be, at best, not the lead. I also think putting it in the lead is inherently perjorative. We don't mention Sally Hemmings in the lead to Thomas Jefferson, or any other similar alleged misconduct by prominent people, and we shouldn't here. And while it may be true that something will come out after his death, that's fine. He can't sue then. While he's still alive is an entirely different matter. Badbilltucker 20:43, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Biographies of living persons

I placed the templates relating to biographies of living persons onto this talk page yesterday hoping that it would bring some order to the problems being experienced by this article recently. Unlike many things at Wikipedia, Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons is a policy rather than a guideline or an essay. It makes it quite clear that biographies of living persons, which require a degree of sensitivity, must adhere strictly to our content policies:

• Verifiability
• Neutral point of view
• No original research

The burden of proof for any claim rests with the editor making that claim. In this case, it would appear that one newspaper has intimated something which most (all?) other newspapers have decided not to be reportable. The fact that one newspaper has made this intimation should not be overlooked but its bearing on the article, and its isolation in the world of media, should also be made clear to provide the right balance and, hence, abide by Wikipedia's formal policy. It is clear, therefore, that these details have no place in the article's leading paragraphs which should concern themselves with the main reasons for this person's primary notability. As for the rest of the article, the burden of satisfying the three key policies bulleted above rests with the editor making these claims. -- Alias Flood 23:48, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Bit of a cleanup

I just gave this quite a major trim in line with our policies on WP:NPOV and WP:V. There are still far too many unsourced assertions, so I suggest getting references if we can. --Guinnog 01:41, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Legend

The number 1 Liverpool Legend, end of.

Goals

Should the total goals for Celtic not read 112 considering that only league goals are considered in the final tally?? 194.81.124.196 09:38, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Picture

Correct me if i'm wrong but the photograph in this article is of Phil Neal, not Kenny Dalglish. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.195.182.60 (talk) 00:44, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Involvement with Proactive Agency

One QC's accusation that Dalglish (who was not a central party to the case) had "unsavoury" and "dishonest" friends is not only the baseless accusation of one man, but also merely his opinion. It is pretty much an implication that Dalglish is involved in crime without explicitly saying so. I'm not sweeping anything "under the rug", as one editor has said, but merely putting in perspective that the statements of one man, which occurred in only one instance is not verifiable or even notable. Most of the section has nothing to

=do with Dalglish, it merely serves as a "legitimate" front for possible slander. I'm taking it out again. Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits) 17:02, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Factual scenario: Kenny Dalglish invited Sean 'Tommy' Adams of the Adams crime family in Islington, North London to a meeting that might have a material impact on his then substantial share holding in what was Proactive Plc. Tommy Adams is a convicted drugs smuggler who is described elsewhere on wikipedia as one of the 3 main lights in a criminal gang that is the most powerful, or one of the most powerful, in the United Kingdom. This is all verifiable from media reports in 2004 and some of the articles are either cited in the article or on this talk page.

  I can find the article if it matters a damn but one of the reports from the Telegraph or Times, if it is not cited, says that Adams and Dalglish became friends after an incident involving Liverpool players in a club controlled by Adams and his brothers when Dalglish managed Liverpool. So lets recap:

(i) central person in this case was in fact Wayne Rooney (ii) central issue in this case was who would manage him (iii) Kenny Dalglish invites a gangster to a business meeting- he therefore becomes one of the central parties to this incident. (iv) No one be it Kenny Dalsglish or anyone else has denied that Tommy Adams attended this meeting at Dalglish's behest.

No where can it be taken that Dalglish is being accused of a crime. It in fact says the polar opposite-he wasn't charged by the police or FA. All it says is he lacks judgment. He does.

Slander doesn't arise here. It would be libel. But it isn't libel because it is a factual report of a trial that happened in 2004 where there are multiple sources to verify same. You are dressing up reasons not to include this but it has been in for most of the 5 years. You don't like the fact it is in- and you can't help wonder if that is because of your admiration for Kenny Dalglish the sportsman. But off the pitch he very much lacks judgment and you are trying to brush this verifiable and notable incident under the carpet. --78.16.161.123 (talk) 20:29, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

The QC was leading the witness in a very provocative manner and Adams rejected all the QCs claims. Furthermore, there is no proof in your citation that Dalglish invited them to the meeting. This is merely one QC's opinion and his view of a situation. Stop trying to portray that opinion as fact. Your idea that this was "widely reported" in the press still isn't backed up by the citations. I'm reverting this again per WP:BLP. Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits)^{WIKIPROJECT ATHLETICS NEEDS YOU!} 09:14, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

This is absurd- where is the media report to back up the assertion that the QC was leading the witness in a very provactive manner. Your making things up now. For another things Tommy Adams was not in court and made no comment on the record to anyone. Stop trying to portray a factual situation as an allegation or as a result of a whim of Lord Carlile QC. This matter was very widely publicised at the time- if you back up this dicussion page you will see this matter adressed under a different heading and their is a multitude of citations. None of which includes any denial by Kenny Dalglish. It is a factual statment to report what was widely publicised at the time- he declined to make a statement to the police. No media interviews to anyone. No brief statement saying 'I did not invite Sean 'Tommy' Adams....'

Please look at inter alia- http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/sports-hottest-property-a-collapsed-trial-and-the-seedy-world-of-football-535203.html

which includes- Another key link in the chain was the late Kevin Dooley ­ a friend of Dalglish, a solicitor to Liverpool FC, brother-in-law to the club's former manager Roy Evans and connected to some of the city's major criminals including the drug baron Curtis Warren. Dooley was probably the link between two of Stretford's more improbable associates ­ Dalglish and the London gangster Tommy Adams, who also has ties with Curtis Warren and is part of a family described as "worse than the Krays". Adams is believed to have first pursued Dooley and Mr Dalglish when the Liverpool team ran up a huge bill at a London establishment he controlled after they lost to Manchester United at Wembley in the 1995 FA Cup Final. The court heard last week how Mr Dalglish enlisted Adams to help Mr Stretford in his dealings with Mr McIntosh.--192.122.220.29 (talk) 00:00, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

More Liverpool details

Needs more details on Liverpool playing career.

Dalglish made his name as an all-rounder forward under Jock Stein's Glasgow Celtic. Seeking new challenges, he joined Liverpool in 1977 when the club was looking to replace Kevin Keegan who joined Hamburg after Liverpool's maiden European Cup triumph in 1977. Dalglish didn't just manage to replace the seemingly irreplaceable Keegan but surpassed him in excellence. His two fellow-Scots, Alan Hansen and Graeme Souness, also joined Liverpool that year. The trio won 3 European Cups, in 1978, 1981 and 1984. Liverpool recorded one of the greatest seasons ever in the English League in 1978-79, capped a hat-trick of League titles in 1982-83-84 and won the League Cup 4 straight times from 1981 to 1984. Joe Fagan resigned as Liverpool manager after the Heysel tragedy and Liverppol's defeat in 1985 European Cup final. Dalglish was appointed player-manager and won the Cup and League Double in May 1986 in his very first season. In 1987, Liverpool signed Barnes, Beardsley and Aldridge. Hereafter, Dalglish's playing career was effectively over. He resigned from the club's managership in February 1991, citing stress as the reason. This started a trend of Dalglish ending his managerial appointments with the club in worse shape than at the time of his appointment. He later managed Blackburn Rovers, Newcastle United, was forever linked with Celtic. He liked to spend lavishly on starts past their prime. His fans remember him chiefly for his brilliance during his playing days with Liverpool. He is arguably the greatest player in the club's history.

Gary Player

Removed reference to him being friends with Gary Player and the fact they both support same charity/ do fundraising for it- sure Dalglish has dozens of friends from world of support and they fundraise. Why focus on Player? Link is obscure and not apparent to world at large in the same way at times say Stephen Hendry and Prince Naseem were linked or Willie Thorne and Gary Linekar.--78.16.36.191 (talk) 17:54, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

I've put it into context now. Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits)^{WIKIPROJECT ATHLETICS NEEDS YOU!} 00:15, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Photo for lead

Doesn't anyone have a decent picture for the article? I've looked on Wikicommons an dthere aren't any there, but someone here must have access to a good non-copyrighted photo? Obscurasky (talk) 13:09, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Managers winning title with different clubs

The article states that Dalglish is only the third manager to have won the English league title with two clubs, however this can't be accurate as Tom Watson, another former Liverpool manager won the league with both Sunderland and Liverpool but isn't listed, meaning Dalglish is at best the 4th manager to achieve this. I don't know if anyone else is missing from the list but it is clearly inaccurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.14.193.173 (talk) 14:05, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Lack of a non-copyrighted image for the article

It seems incredible but there doesn't seem to be one. The current one (which I inadvertently added) will be deleted on 16 January. Jprw (talk) 15:46, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

The lead

Is way too long. I may begin attempts on shortening it, and, wherever possible, relocating text to the main body of the article. Jprw (talk) 07:59, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

There shouldn't be anything in the lead that isn't in the article, so I agree with you there. I don't think it's too long as it is; a good lead can run to 4 or 5 paras when the article goes into plenty of depth. GedUK  14:32, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Maybe it can be restored and then pared down. I'm in two minds about what to do. Jprw (talk) 18:13, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Have put it back – a slowly-but-surely approach probably best to getting it right. Jprw (talk) 09:32, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Okay, have pared it back. It seems as though the work he did in the aftermath of Hillsborough should also be in the lead. Jprw 14:02, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your work on this, I think it's looking good! GedUK  12:47, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm glad that we seem to be making progress. the next paragraph from the lead looks as though it could be reworked:

His years at Liverpool marked one of the club's most prolific periods: he won seven league titles, three European Cups and five domestic cups. For these achievements, he is nicknamed King Kenny, and he was placed first in Liverpool's list of "100 Players Who Shook the Kop". Dalglish became player-manager of Liverpool in 1985 following the Heysel Stadium Disaster and brought the team a league and FA Cup double in his first year in charge, beating Merseyside rivals Everton in the process. During his six-year tenure from 1985–1991, Liverpool won the league championship three times and the FA Cup twice.

It's a bit repetitive and really needs to mention the impact of Hillsborough (as a cause of his leaving), which Dalglish was at the epicentre of. Jprw (talk) 08:35, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Johnny Wark

Some many have noticed that yesterday's featured article on Wikipedia was of John Wark. This is the first time that I have seen a FA of a sports personality on WP. Wouldn't it be great if this could inspire us to get KD's article up to a similar standard (at least GA standard, anyway). With this in mind, I suggest using the JW article as a rough guide to knocking the KD article into shape. Thoughts and contributions from other editors welcome. (A good start may be to get hold of KD’s autobiography [ghost written by Henry Winter] and use this as a reference to bolster certain parts of the article). Jprw (talk) 14:14, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

I think this is a great idea. I already have his autobio, though it's not made it to the top of my reading list yet. I think I'll have a look over it ASAP, especially if you give me areas that you'd like me to focus on. It was very interesting to see a footballer on the front page (there have been other US sports stars I think). Very interesting looking at the page views stats as well (http://stats.grok.se/en/201102/John%20Wark), from under 200 page views per day to 21,500+ when it was on the main page! Might be worth raising at the LFC wikiproject as well. GedUK  08:47, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I didn't even know the LFC wikiproject existed! It might be interesting to compare how and how frequently Wark's autobiography Wark On is referenced in his article, and aim for something similar for KD's article with his book. I think to begin with the main gap to be filled is re: Hillsborough. The user Dweller also pointed me to this page which contains tonnes of useful info and advice. Jprw (talk) 10:51, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm by no means an expert on writing FAs, though I did get James Cagney to GA. I think the critical part of a biography article is less the autobiography (a primary source) but biographies. The auto should be used to give his opinion on specific things, but the context and wider opinion on the same event should set the tone and come from bios. Bios obviously don't have to be books, there's loads written on him online. I'm on holiday next week, so I'll try and find some time! GedUK  11:32, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm sure that good progress can be made. User Dweller warns on this page that it can be a painstaking process, but the main thing at this stage is to have a couple of editors willing to push the article in the right direction, get the ball rolling, etc. Cheers, Jprw (talk) 09:23, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't actually think it's a million miles away from a GA. Certainly there's plenty of sourcing, though we'll need to check how reliable it all is, the structure seems reasonable, though we need to be careful with the language ('leading marksman') and turn down the tone in places. GedUK  09:37, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

I agree with both your points. I have tried to remove some of the problematic language with this edit this edit and this edit and do a general tidy up / copy edit. I'll try to do some more work this weekend. Maybe we can aim for GA status in a month or so and FA status by the summer. From my point of view it is extremely helpful that we have the John Wark article as an approximate yardstick for the sort of style/content/amount of detail we should be aiming for. Jprw (talk) 12:12, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Seems reasonable! Good work with the edits, I think that tightens it up. I moved some bits around earlier in the week too. GedUK  20:47, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I saw that, well done. Sic itur ad astra! Jprw (talk) 10:09, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Photo with Moran and Evans

This photo is okay to use, which is great news. I've relocated it to what looks to be the best place in the article. Jprw (talk) 11:36, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Loan to Cumbernauld United

Why is there no information in the info box regarding his loan to Cumbernauld? Under the Celtic info it says that he was loaned in the 67-68 season scoring 37 goals. Does any one know anything about that like how many appearances he made. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.231.212.68 (talk) 00:50, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

More work done, but more work needed

Have just had another go at improving various parts of the article. I think that there are still serious issues, and that a reality check may need to be taken re: how soon this can be taken to GA status. I think there are five main issues that need addressing:

• (Still) too much detail throughout the article, though I would suggest that the lede is at last starting to look fairly tight...maybe.
• (Still) too much weasley and non-encyclopaedic language throughout.
• (Still) too much of the information is unsourced; for example, vast swathes of the Blackburn section.
• The book he wrote with Henry Winter needs to be sourced more.
• We need more photos; the main one is inadequate, only better than nothing, I'm afraid.

Again, I believe that it is worth re-stating that we are very fortunate to have the John Wark WP article to serve as an example that WP sports articles can reach FA status, and what is roughly required in order to do so. It can be done, but there is still lots to do. I am also currently in the process of writing to all major UK newspapers and regional Merseyside newspapers to try and get photos of Dalglish that can be uploaded to Wikicommons. I've drawn a blank so far. Jprw (talk) 11:25, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Dalglish through the ages?

I've just seen this excellent 17-picture summary of his career. I wonder if it would be appropriate to add something like this as an external link? My other worry is that it has the potential to become a dead link before long. Jprw (talk) 16:50, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

GA nomination

I've nominated the article for GA status. I don't think that it is that far off, and believe that the GA review process could go a long way to sorting out the issues that the article does have and generally knocking it into shape. I also think that now may be an appropriate time as the "dust has settled" so to speak in terms of his appointment as full-time manager, so it will give editors a chance to get some perspective on the whirlwind of media coverage and speculation witnessed since January.

I remain hopeful that, inspired by the John Wark article which serves as an excellent example, the Kenny Dalglish article could reach FA status one day. Jprw (talk) 18:14, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

File:Ronnie Moran (left), manager Kenny Dalglish and assistant manager Roy Evans enjoy the club's 18th championship title.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Ronnie Moran (left), manager Kenny Dalglish and assistant manager Roy Evans enjoy the club's 18th championship title.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations What should I do?

Speedy deletions at commons tend to take longer than they do on Wikipedia, so there is no rush to respond. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs. A further notification will be placed when/if the image is deleted. This notification is provided by a Bot, currently under trial --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 03:05, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Dr title.

Please do not keep adding Dr in front of his name - see WP:CREDENTIAL. People who have earned doctorates should not usually have the title let alone someone who has just received an honorary doctorate. noq (talk) 17:36, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Kenny Dalglish/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 03:21, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

I'll review this article shortly. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 03:21, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Here are the issues I found:

• The citation needed tag has to be addressed.
• There are many unsourced sections throughout the article. As a rule, each paragraph needs at least one source.
• There are many bare urls as refs; make sure titles, publishers, dates, accessdates, etc. are added.

Unfortunately, those above points signify a quick-fail, since basic issues didn't seem to be addressed before this was nominated. Here are some more points to fix as well after reading the article:

• There are multiple deadlinks that need fixing: see here.
• authors in refs should have last name then first
• "Dalglish, the son of an engineer, grew up supporting Rangers" write as Rangers F.C., since it may throw people off as is.
• "he was brought up in Milton in the north of Glasgow " on the north side of, rather? if writing it like that is normal in British English then nevermind.
• "also the same place where rival coach Sir Alex Ferguson was born" can probably be removed, doesn't tell us that much.
• "Dalglish signed his provisional contract with Celtic in May 1967" linking Celtic here would be helpful, though it already is in the lead.
• "as an apprentice joiner." link or note what a joiner is.
• Give the full name for Stein and link on first mention.
• "Dalglish instead signed for Celtic" with Celtic
• "Dalglish scored his first competitive goal for Celtic, via the penalty spot" just saying via penalty would make it clearer.
• "Dalglish moved to Liverpool for a British record £440,000 transfer fee" add an inflation template.
• "Dalglish was made Celtic captain in 1975–76. However, Stein was badly hurt in a car crash and missed most of the season" Not clear how these two connect.
• There seems to be overuse of adjective modifiers (i.e. "Dalglish's departure was extremely unpopular with the Celtic fans", "Rush thrived alongside Dalglish"). They're okay to use a couple times in the article when they're directly sourced, but in this article they need to be toned down a bit.
• The structure of the article and the prose is not very good. It reads as if each sentence is its own paragraph and independent thought without flow. Combine 1 and 2 sentence paragraphs together, and from there fine tune the prose to make sure it flows well. (I did the lead as an example; the Celtic section in particular is where I have this issue.)
• "Dalglish was an ever present" ever present
• "and was ever-present once again" so is ever present hyphenated or not? I stopped the prose review about here.

Due to the above points, I'm going to fail this article as a GA. Once the above points are fixed, I would recommend sending it to a peer review to get everything fine tuned. The article should be GA ready once both those steps are undertaken. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 15:21, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Many thanks for taking the time and trouble to do this and for being so thorough. There is clearly a lot of work that needs doing; I hope to address the main points you raise over the next few days, and then think about other ways of improving the article, fine-tuning etc. After that we can reconsider resubmitting it. Progress may be slow (especially when it comes to getting more KD images for WP), but on the other hand there is no real rush, I suppose:) I also think that the article still has great potential. Regards, Jprw (talk) 05:36, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I've gone through the article up until the end of the playing career section. It needed a lot of work and probably could do with another once-over. I also understand now how spot-on Wizardman's comments were. I'll try and get round to improving the rest of the article in the next few days. Jprw (talk) 13:54, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Is this worth mentioning in the article?

As "in popular culture", maybe it is worth mentioning that Paul McCartney mentions Mr. Dalglish on one of his records (but I prefer to ask first). You can check it out here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXKjYyA7mnY&t=3m42s&hd=1 Alvabass (talk) 23:48, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 May 2015

The external links for this article are no longer correct (actually no longer correct for all (ex) Liverpool players.

LFCHistory.net Player profile should be linked to http://www.lfchistory.net/Players/Player/Profile/287 instead of http://www.lfchistory.net/player_profile.asp?player_id=287

LFCHistory.net Manager profile should be linked to http://www.lfchistory.net/Managers/Manager/Profile/12 instead of http://www.lfchistory.net/managers_profile.asp?manager_id=12

Official past players at Liverpool fc.tv should be linked to http://www.liverpoolfc.com/history/past-players/kenny-dalglish instead of http://www.liverpoolfc.comv/team/first-team

English Football Hall of Fame Profile should be linked to http://www.nationalfootballmuseum.com/hall-of-fame/profiles/entry/kenny-dalglish/ instead of http://www.nationalfootballmuseum.com/Hall%20of%20Fame/kennydaglish.htm

Harveyb10 (talk) 16:24, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Done. But the article does not appear to be protected so you should have been able to do it yourself. noq (talk) 16:45, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120620150347/http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-16/liverpool-manager-dalglish-fired-after-worst-finish-in-18-years.html to https://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-16/liverpool-manager-dalglish-fired-after-worst-finish-in-18-years.html

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MBE important ?

For a footballer, is this knighthood thing of any significance at all ? Do the supporters or the clubs care ? Also - in the light of all foreign players in Premier League (who, by the way, perhaps are preventing English success in the World Cups and Euros ???)It is a question, nothing else. Boeing720 (talk) 09:31, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure what your point is. It is notable that he has been honoured by the UK Government, and the article (briefly) mentions this. If anything, it is a slight source of puzzlement that he hasn't been awarded a knighthood. [2] Jmorrison230582 (talk) 11:26, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

It wasn't a point, just a question (well - aside of England's future prospects in World Cups and Euros, I have to admit that. Was thinking of a possible World Cup winner, but there is no real favoirite, I can see at the moment. Italy and Holland is out, Spain, Germany and Brazil are having problems, Russia ? England ? Argentina ? France ? Mexico even ? - but never mind that). "Honoured by the UK Government" OK, that's relevant. But what did he do for the Government ? Or is it I who don't grasp what knighthood in the UK is about ? (which might be far from unlikely) Boeing720 (talk) 00:55, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 June 2018

Kenny dalglish was knighted so the page should be updated. TombleebooHD (talk) 21:50, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

It has been already. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 22:14, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

 Already done L293D (☎ • ✎) 14:09, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Trophies

King kenny won the Drybrough cup in 1975 and glassgow cup in 1975 could someone please add this to his wiki Innerpeacedude (talk) 01:10, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

 Done REDMAN 2019 (talk) 11:57, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Kenny Dalglish/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Kosack (talk · contribs) 18:57, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

I'll take this one, will post review shortly. Kosack (talk) 18:58, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Lead

• "He made 322 appearances for Celtic and 502 for Liverpool", I'd add "During his career," ahead of this as it reads pretty number heavy from the start.
• "also a record, held jointly with Denis Law", I'd drop this mention of Law, switch to "also a joint-record". Law is already mentioned as the joint record holder in the third paragraph and this sentence is a bit long, so this will trim it down a little.
• Scotland are already linked in the first paragraph so there's no need to link again in the second. A few more doubles in Director of Football and Scottish League Cup in the third and League Cup in the fourth.
• "Newcastle finished runners-up in the Premier League", finished as?
• There are two mentions of Anfield in the last sentence but the second is linked, not the first?
• Refs 8 and 9 are used in text so there's no need to keep them in the lead.

 Done

Early life

• Home Nations should be capitalised.

 Done

Celtic

• The first use of Celtic needs linking.
• I'm a bit confused about the Cumbernauld United info. In the infobox, it states he was a youth player there before joining Celtic. In the text it states he joined the club on loan as a professional? The year of signing his pro contract with Celtic also doesn't tally with the infobox.

He signed the contract in 1967 but played with the reserves until pretty much 1971, However I'm not sure whether playing for the reserves while making occasional first team appearances counts as professional or not. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 11:57, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

• Refs 12 and 13 are the wrong way round on the joiner sentence. Refs should be in numerical order.

ref 10 (12) is quoted at the end of the previous paragraph. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 11:59, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

• "He played with the reserves throughout the 1968–69 season, but only scored four goals in 17 games. The following season, he moved into midfield, which saw his performances improve", this is extremely close paraphrasing to the LFC History source.
• "during season 1969–70", I don't think we would refer to a season in this reverse format.
• "The reserves, however, benefited from his goalscoring talent from midfield...", again this is pretty much word for word from the source.
• Link hat-trick.
• "win yet another league championship", I think yet can be dropped here. It seems to be over emphasising the victory, rather than remaining neutral.
• Link Bob Paisley.

 Done Except for the ones that I've replied to. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 07:09, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Liverpool

• The picture caption should be "in the 1980s".
• Link Wembley.
• The only ref in the first paragraph has no mention of any domestic football, only the European ties.
• The first half of the second paragraph appears to have no sourcing?
• A big jump from 1983 to 1985 and there are at least a few notable incidents from this time frame mentioned on LFC History.
• LFC History mentions that Dalglish would only accept the job if Paisley was his assistant for two years. This is worth mentioning I think.
• Only one ref in the third paragraph (which has expired btw) and a cn tag.
• "Dalglish formed a new striker partnership of new signings", drop one of the news, probably the first one.
• First half of this paragraph is unsourced.
• Derby > Derby County.
• "At 39, he was one of the oldest players ever to play for Liverpool", ref doesn't seem to support this.

International

• The first half of the first paragraph is not supported by the ref.
• Repeat link of Hampden Park in the second paragraph.
• Source for the 76 win over England?

Liverpool

• Repeat link of Joe Fagan.
• Most of the second and half of the third paragraphs are unsourced.

Blackburn Rovers

• Repeat link of Premier League in the second paragraph.
• First paragraph has sourcing issues, including a cn tag.
• Second paragraph has no sources.

Newcastle United

• "He also made some good long-term signings like Gary Speed and Shay Given", this is unsourced and reads like someone added it in response to the preceding criticism of signings.

Return to Liverpool

• Wolves > Wolverhampton Wanderers
• Repeat link of Newcastle in the first paragraph.
• "His first official match in charge was 2–0 defeat to Harry Redknapp's Spurs at Anfield", source?
• The last two paragraphs are small, single sentence constructions. These should generally be avoided. Can these be worked into more fluid prose?

Career statistics

• The refs in the table heading should be in numerical order.
• The League Cup appearances in the table add up to 119, not 118.

References

• Avoid shouting in ref titles, even if the ref itself does, per WP:ALLCAPS.
• Refs 13 and 45 need an author.
• Refs 16 and 30 are the same.
• Why is Liverweb a reliable source?
• Refs 18, 31, 35 has expired.
• Ref 36 has no real publishing info. Is the site reliable?
• Ref 40 needs an accessdate.
• That's the first 40 refs covered, you can grasp the rest from that. Ensure refs are fully formatted and contain all available info.

A bit on the fence over this one, but I'm going to quickfail for now I'm afraid. The biggest problem is the sourcing, which is sketchy at best in some places, and no article should be coming to GAN with outstanding cn tags really. The Liverpool section is a little short perhaps also, three paragraphs for over 500 games. There's just a bit too much to cover in a single review, but with these changes, it'll be in much better shape. If you have any questions, please feel free to drop me a message. Kosack (talk) 19:29, 20 May 2020 (UTC)